A crucial point going unmentioned in this article is the fact that Coillte, Ireland's semi-state forestry business, have been fully complicit in this for decades. People have petitioned that entire time to manage our forests better, or at least provide more transparency (ie, into how they use pesticides), with little success.
Instead, Coillte actively work to hide their practices - not just the blankets of monocultured sitka spruce mentioned, but things like drenching those areas with glyphosate (over a ton per year [0]) which then leaks into water supply, or secretively selling off huge tracts of sovereign land to foreign interests.
Ireland's national parks have faced similar issues [1] despite some strong advocates and obvious solutions. I wish I knew why the two political parties responsible for this hate trees so much.
300 milligrams per hectare isn't drenching an area with glyphosate. Weed control in fields uses an application rate that can be thousands of times higher! I've applied 300mg with a hand wand in a matter of seconds to do noxious weed control before.
They're not equally distributing glyphosate in an average mist across every hectare of land each year.
> “In 2021, Coillte treated [circa] 2,300 hectares with glyphosate for vegetation control, which equates to 0.006% of our estate [0]
That works out to a lot more than 300 milligrams; closer to 430,000. I've seen the desolation with my own eyes. The ecosystem doesn't recover from that.
Coillte also use glyphosate and a raft of other chemicals in their nurseries and along the roadsides, as do local councils, with little if any oversight.
I take your point, they're intentionally reporting an average to sort of obscure the true application rate.
What's the the right amount of glyphosate (and others) to use, and under what conditions? Where I live (and have lived) we have pretty nasty invasive broadleaf species for whom glyphosate and triclopyr are first line choices for destroying the plant, i.e. mechanical removal does not work or is counterproductive.
So, clearly it has a place in the defense of ecosystems. What standard and protocols do we hold the users of these chemicals to (including yours truly)?
mandmandam 87 days ago [-]
> Where I live (and have lived) we have pretty nasty invasive broadleaf species for whom glyphosate and triclopyr are first line choices for destroying the plant, i.e. mechanical removal does not work or is counterproductive.
> So, clearly it has a place in the defense of ecosystems.
Why would that be clear? Do you live in the land of 'Always Right'?
0_____0 87 days ago [-]
It's best practice for certain weeds e.g. morning glory, where breaking the vine tends to just spread it, and digging it up flat out does not work - you'll be at it for years.
There are about 40,000 unemployed people actively looking for work in King's County, if I'm reading the figures right.
If I were in charge of getting rid of King County's bindweed, I would look at hiring some of those people to permanently improve the soil quality, so that it can be outcompeted by shrubs. Solarization could be a part of the process, or mulching. I'm far from an expert though, and there are other options still without using dangerous chemicals.
I know, I know - long term solutions take time and money. Better than poisoning the soil and water (and most everything that depends on them) for a quick fix though. And, paying local people a fair wage for honest work has all kinds of economic benefits.
89 days ago [-]
cf100clunk 89 days ago [-]
All the birds in the forest they bitterly weep
Saying, "Where shall we shelter or where shall we sleep?"
For the Oak and the Ash, they are all cutten down
And the walls of bonny Portmore are all down to the ground.
But I shall be back with the yellow gold before the morning light
metalman 89 days ago [-]
The Raven
Underneath a huge oak tree
There was of swine a huge company,
That grunted as they crunched the mast:
For that was ripe, and fell full fast.
Then they trotted away, for the wind grew high:
One acorn they left, and no more might you spy.
Next came a Raven, that liked not such folly:
He belonged, they did say, to the witch Melancholy!
Blacker was he than blackest jet,
Flew low in the rain, and his feathers not wet.
He picked up the acorn and buried it straight
By the side of a river both deep and great.
Where then did the Raven go?
He went high and low,
Over hill, over dale, did the black Raven go.
Many Autumns, many Springs
Travelled he with wandering wings:
Many Summers, many Winters --
I can't tell half his adventures.
At length he came back, and with him a She,
And the acorn was grown to a tall oak tree.
They built them a nest in the topmost bough,
And young ones they had, and were happy enow.
But soon came a woodman in leathern guise,
His brow, like a pent-house, hung over his eyes.
He'd an axe in his hand, not a word he spoke,
But with many a hem! and a sturdy stroke,
At length he brought down the poor Raven's own oak.
His young ones were killed; for they could not depart,
And their mother did die of a broken heart.
The boughs from the trunk the Woodman did sever;
And they floated it down on the course of the river.
They sawed it in planks, and its bark they did strip,
And with this tree and others they made a good ship.
The ship, it was launched; but in sight of the land
Such a storm there did rise as no ship could withstand.
It bulged on a rock, and the waves rush'd in fast:
The old Raven flew round and round, and cawed to the blast.
He heard the last shriek of the perishing souls --
See! see! o'er the topmast the mad water rolls!
Right glad was the Raven, and off he went fleet,
And Death riding home on a cloud he did meet,
And he thank'd him again and again for this treat:
They had taken his all; and REVENGE WAS SWEET!
1791.
by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
A Christmas Tale, told by a school-boy to his little brothers and sisters.
hulitu 88 days ago [-]
> All the birds in the forest they bitterly weep Saying, "Where shall we shelter or where shall we sleep?"
In the pot. Who needs birds or insects ? The only useful insect is the bark beetle. /s
pvaldes 89 days ago [-]
Temporary grants is just fattening the goose.
The government should buy the land instead (paying generously) to anybody wanting to sell it voluntarily. Or maybe propose a system of green legacy for old people wanting to assure that their favorite properties are cared forever as wild areas after they die. sort of "If you wish, you can let part of your land to National Parks, and we will create a forever forest called after your own name. Also here are some tax benefits for your last years". That would create a lot of new opportunities of business for everybody around the place. And this in turn would attract and fix young families to this areas.
Then should try to build corridors between national parks with this donations. We can also dream about a new National Park, but a corridor can deliver also in much less space.
The problem usually is the cattle pushing to take every inch of the land
pfannkuchen 89 days ago [-]
I’m just surprised the English didn’t log the whole place to build more boats hundreds of years ago. Isn’t that what happened to England?
VeejayRampay 89 days ago [-]
it's OK, the market will regulate itself
defrost 89 days ago [-]
Stand down Maggie, stand down.
dave333 89 days ago [-]
Imagine if 1% of Ireland were covered in Permaculture Food Forest
Above video is much more hands on than a typical food forest that would be much more plant and forget until various foods can be seasonally harvested. Started as a small holding of boggy ground about 20 years ago.
wkat4242 89 days ago [-]
Yeah it's really sad. There's only a few slivers left.
One time we found an amazing spot with a little cove, only to return and find it logged a few years later. It was so sad.
Ireland should be as vigilant as new zealand in protecting its natural heritage. Especially considering how little there is left.
89 days ago [-]
Rendered at 11:34:34 GMT+0000 (UTC) with Wasmer Edge.
Instead, Coillte actively work to hide their practices - not just the blankets of monocultured sitka spruce mentioned, but things like drenching those areas with glyphosate (over a ton per year [0]) which then leaks into water supply, or secretively selling off huge tracts of sovereign land to foreign interests.
Ireland's national parks have faced similar issues [1] despite some strong advocates and obvious solutions. I wish I knew why the two political parties responsible for this hate trees so much.
0 - https://irishriverproject.com/2022/08/16/coillte-use-of-cype...
1 - https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/arid-414792...
It would be desolate if it wasn't for the greass.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6853372,-9.9542862,3a,75y,18...
Edit: source for application rate: https://www.pioneer.com/us/agronomy/glyphosate_use_optimum_f...
> “In 2021, Coillte treated [circa] 2,300 hectares with glyphosate for vegetation control, which equates to 0.006% of our estate [0]
That works out to a lot more than 300 milligrams; closer to 430,000. I've seen the desolation with my own eyes. The ecosystem doesn't recover from that.
Coillte also use glyphosate and a raft of other chemicals in their nurseries and along the roadsides, as do local councils, with little if any oversight.
0 - https://www.thejournal.ie/in-the-weeds-roads-forests-5864314...
What's the the right amount of glyphosate (and others) to use, and under what conditions? Where I live (and have lived) we have pretty nasty invasive broadleaf species for whom glyphosate and triclopyr are first line choices for destroying the plant, i.e. mechanical removal does not work or is counterproductive.
So, clearly it has a place in the defense of ecosystems. What standard and protocols do we hold the users of these chemicals to (including yours truly)?
> So, clearly it has a place in the defense of ecosystems.
Why would that be clear? Do you live in the land of 'Always Right'?
Here's King County's factsheet for morning glory. How would you handle it in your own yard? How would you handle it if you were managing 100s of acres? https://www.nwcb.wa.gov/pdfs/Bindweed_factsheet_King.pdf
If I were in charge of getting rid of King County's bindweed, I would look at hiring some of those people to permanently improve the soil quality, so that it can be outcompeted by shrubs. Solarization could be a part of the process, or mulching. I'm far from an expert though, and there are other options still without using dangerous chemicals.
I know, I know - long term solutions take time and money. Better than poisoning the soil and water (and most everything that depends on them) for a quick fix though. And, paying local people a fair wage for honest work has all kinds of economic benefits.
Underneath a huge oak tree There was of swine a huge company, That grunted as they crunched the mast: For that was ripe, and fell full fast. Then they trotted away, for the wind grew high: One acorn they left, and no more might you spy. Next came a Raven, that liked not such folly: He belonged, they did say, to the witch Melancholy! Blacker was he than blackest jet, Flew low in the rain, and his feathers not wet. He picked up the acorn and buried it straight By the side of a river both deep and great.
Where then did the Raven go? He went high and low, Over hill, over dale, did the black Raven go. Many Autumns, many Springs Travelled he with wandering wings: Many Summers, many Winters -- I can't tell half his adventures.
At length he came back, and with him a She, And the acorn was grown to a tall oak tree. They built them a nest in the topmost bough, And young ones they had, and were happy enow.
But soon came a woodman in leathern guise, His brow, like a pent-house, hung over his eyes. He'd an axe in his hand, not a word he spoke, But with many a hem! and a sturdy stroke, At length he brought down the poor Raven's own oak. His young ones were killed; for they could not depart, And their mother did die of a broken heart.
The boughs from the trunk the Woodman did sever; And they floated it down on the course of the river. They sawed it in planks, and its bark they did strip, And with this tree and others they made a good ship. The ship, it was launched; but in sight of the land Such a storm there did rise as no ship could withstand. It bulged on a rock, and the waves rush'd in fast: The old Raven flew round and round, and cawed to the blast.
He heard the last shriek of the perishing souls -- See! see! o'er the topmast the mad water rolls! Right glad was the Raven, and off he went fleet, And Death riding home on a cloud he did meet, And he thank'd him again and again for this treat: They had taken his all; and REVENGE WAS SWEET!
1791. by Samuel Taylor Coleridge
A Christmas Tale, told by a school-boy to his little brothers and sisters.
In the pot. Who needs birds or insects ? The only useful insect is the bark beetle. /s
The government should buy the land instead (paying generously) to anybody wanting to sell it voluntarily. Or maybe propose a system of green legacy for old people wanting to assure that their favorite properties are cared forever as wild areas after they die. sort of "If you wish, you can let part of your land to National Parks, and we will create a forever forest called after your own name. Also here are some tax benefits for your last years". That would create a lot of new opportunities of business for everybody around the place. And this in turn would attract and fix young families to this areas.
Then should try to build corridors between national parks with this donations. We can also dream about a new National Park, but a corridor can deliver also in much less space.
The problem usually is the cattle pushing to take every inch of the land
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o0gCnur7Q
Above video is much more hands on than a typical food forest that would be much more plant and forget until various foods can be seasonally harvested. Started as a small holding of boggy ground about 20 years ago.
One time we found an amazing spot with a little cove, only to return and find it logged a few years later. It was so sad.
Ireland should be as vigilant as new zealand in protecting its natural heritage. Especially considering how little there is left.