I initially found this project kind of fun, almost like an art project. But realistically, it’s easier to just use the web. Nothing about the web implies heaviness. If you want a minimalist website with no photos, you are absolutely free to make one, and you’re also free to use e.g. Lynx/w3m/elinks browsers to browse the modern web or the subset that renders well on it. Way, way more websites will look awesome on these in text mode than the content available on Gemini.
tpoacher 234 days ago [-]
> Nothing about the web implies heaviness
Yes, except that heaviness is allowed, and lightness is opt-in.
> you’re also free to use e.g. Lynx/w3m/elinks browsers to browse the modern web or the subset that renders well on it.
Yes, except you have no way of known if and when something you want to search for will work on these. Whereas anything on Gemini will work on Gemini.
Ultimately to some extent it's an anti-bloat guarantee. Yes not all of the normal web has bloat, but that's not the point. To use a Genetic Programming analogy, it's the difference between not even considering program trees beyond a certain small size, vs having elaborate strategies for countering the inevitable program of bloat once you start dealing with programs of sufficient interest and complexity. But if you want to end up with programs that only consist of less than 10 instructions that you can reason with easily, then perhaps a "small world of small programs" is exactly what you want. And the natural content that fits this "small programs / small world" guarantee is personal thoughts and atomic websites. Which makes for an interesting webspace.
crgk 234 days ago [-]
I’ve recently started hosting a Gemini capsule for myself, and I’m having a lot of fun with it. Browsing Geminispace has been very refreshing.
Kinda bummed that other threads here are focusing on how Gemini does not replace certain things we can do on the web like it’s a failure. I’d say it’s fine and good that the two have different capabilities!
In my experience, Gemini does not aspire to replace the web, but just to add a different internet experience for those who want the option.
(As you can tell, I still browse the web.)
bovermyer 235 days ago [-]
A month or so ago, I migrated all of my Gemini posts to my blog and shut down my Gemini server.
For me there wasn't really a point to the effort. I'm glad the protocol exists and that people are enjoying it, but I'll stick to HTML.
3036e4 235 days ago [-]
I shut down my server the other day after people on HN were sharing horror stories about runaway bandwidth bills. I could not find a good (easy) way to ensure that my gemini server shuts down if hit by DDOS. I want to set it up again, but need to find some place to host it that has a guaranteed maximum bandwidth cost.
LorenDB 235 days ago [-]
Just run it on Hetzner. You get 20TB egress monthly per server, which should cover a lot of DDOS activity.
You could also probably create a script to run on another machine that uses the Hetzner (or other cloud provider) API to monitor usage and shut off your server if it exceeds usage limits.
3036e4 235 days ago [-]
It was running on Hetzner, but I did not like the idea of having to rely on some script to try to avoid a disaster as opposed to just be able to set a limit (that they do not support?).
* Even if the risk is obviously very low, the value of running my gemlog isn't great. Not really worth any non-zero risk of significant costs.
tpoacher 234 days ago [-]
sourcehut offers gemini hosting via your sr.ht repos from what I understand.
haven't tried it myself yet, though I've been meaning to...
prmoustache 235 days ago [-]
It is rather easy to have one running alongside the other and the gemtext syntax is such it is quite easy to make automatic converters. Did you encounter issues maintaining both?
I mean I truly believe anyone can do small websites using HTML standards so for the actual content producer Gemini doesn't have much appeal. On the other hand using Gemini provide the users/visitors a guarantee they will not end up following a link and ending up in a bloated, privacy and ad nightmare. So I think it is sane to offer that even if you believe in small regular web.
bovermyer 234 days ago [-]
I no longer use a VPS and just have my static site hosted on a free provider.
nicbou 235 days ago [-]
The lack of images made Gemini unworkable for me. I know it's by design, but illustrations are an important part of my writing.
It's more sensible to build the sort of websites I want to see, and to use Reader Mode for other people's websites.
entropie 235 days ago [-]
I found it funny that they propagate the no image thing and the screenshots of android clients showcased some sites that did ascii art and other ways to "fake images".
Yeah - images are an integral part of the www.
ar_lan 235 days ago [-]
When I was younger, I thought Gemini was very cool mostly because it was an alternative protocol to the mainstream. It made me feel very inner-circle in the development world, for some reason.
As I've grown, I've come to learn I'm a very visual learner. I've learned that "clear is kind", and for many, image and text are both important, but many images have a way of conveying what is difficult to express in words without being overly verbose.
I agree, illustrations are an essential part, especially when teaching something.
nicbou 235 days ago [-]
In what context did you hear "clear is kind"? That expression is new to me
3036e4 235 days ago [-]
Some clients have a setting to inline images, or/and a shortcut to do so on the current page. Most clients can display images when the user follows a link to one. So images are quite useless as decorations (as most will probably not see them) but if an article contains useful images most users will be able to see those.
tpoacher 234 days ago [-]
The Gemini protocol does not mandate lack of images. It is simply left up to the implementation to decide how (or whether) to display those.
One of the most popular Gemini browsers, Lagrange, shows images inline once downloaded. But you need to click their link to ensure you want to see the content first.
E.g., view this in lagrange to see what I mean: gemini://8by3.net/~xkcd/
I don't think most of the ones I like would be possible to implement in gemini because it doesn't have images.
wmwragg 234 days ago [-]
Gemini has images, just by default the gemini protocol is designed to not download and inline them, though many gemini browsers allow auto inlining of images. There is no specific line format for them, they are just another link line pointing to an image.
clearleaf 233 days ago [-]
I discovered Gemini years ago and was completely enchanted by the whole concept. There are two main buzz kills though.
1. The TLS requirement really undercuts the idea of using Gemini for whatever you want. I know how to set up certificates and run DNS but it's too much infrastructure. I've seen the rationale and don't find it realistic.
2. The barriers to entry are so high that only hardcore tech enthusiasts survive the journey. I don't dislike the people on there but they ran out of stuff to teach me pretty quickly.
Due to these two things I find Gemini very self contradictory in it's goals. Is it serious or just for fun? Is it meant for everybody or for a small covenant of nerds?
In the end I was unable to find any value in Gemini, however I'm still very interested in the gmi format and gempub ebooks. It's my opinion that unlike web pages, ebooks actually DO need to be rescued in the style of Gemini. The creator of gempub gives a very good rationale of what problems ebooks have and why gmi is much more condusive to a comfortable and consistent reading experience than html and css.
From what I can tell I'm the only person on earth who gives a rat's ass about this (even more than the dev possibly) so I would really appreciate people checking this out.
Also, they should rename it to bard:// (just kidding)
tpoacher 234 days ago [-]
Only in the same way the nano editor should rename itself to Stable Diffusion because of Google naming their image generator nano-banana.
Gemini predated Google's Gemini by many years and was a sufficiently known project. Google hijacking known project names is a thing which keeps happening for some reason.
Wow, I have deedum on my android, but I can see it is no longer in the play store.
I wonder if that has to do with that app change google is trying in order to be a walled garden like Apple.
I hope the EU is still sticking it to google and that carries over to the US.
jl6 234 days ago [-]
I feel sorry for the Gemini protocol project that Google named their AI Gemini.
skrlet13 234 days ago [-]
Gemini protocol is the Cooler Gemini
insert Cooler Daniel meme
throw310822 235 days ago [-]
Never heard of it, but what's the difference with the web in 1994?
prmoustache 235 days ago [-]
The difference is you can actually access it today without fear of being thrown back in 2025 by doing such a simple thing as following a link on the same protocol.
StevePerkins 235 days ago [-]
I believe that's the entire point.
NoboruWataya 235 days ago [-]
TLS. Beyond that, as little as possible is basically the goal.
235 days ago [-]
raspyberr 234 days ago [-]
Gemini must be doing something right cause nearly everyone here seems to froth at the mouth with anger whenever it's mentioned.
skrlet13 234 days ago [-]
I love Gemini, I don't use it much but I am so glad it exists.
234 days ago [-]
beeflet 234 days ago [-]
Why not stick to a subset of HTML?
warkdarrior 234 days ago [-]
On the plus side, Gemini content is super useful for LLM training, since it is easy to scrape and easy to format as plain text.
isoprophlex 235 days ago [-]
But but but... how would this would allow me to run arbitrary client-side code in order to snoop on users, mine shitcoins or enforce DRM?!
sunrunner 235 days ago [-]
> Simpler
> Human Scale
> Distraction Free
> Privacy Protecting
Similar to the indie web/slow web movements, it's genuinely a shame that these qualities are essentially anathema to the business model of so much of modern social media.
talkgsm 235 days ago [-]
[dead]
frizlab 235 days ago [-]
[flagged]
tomhow 233 days ago [-]
Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting.
You’re so glad that, rather than discuss it, you redirect the conversation back to Google’s Gemini?
235 days ago [-]
jmclnx 235 days ago [-]
Plus glad to see it call "Gemini" instead of "Gemini Protocol", too bad google stole the name after Gemini was a thing. And unlike gopher, Gemini renders fine on Cell Phones.
As I mentioned before in these threads, I find Gemini far easier to maintain then anything associated with html. It is very simple. I had moved my WEB space to Gemini on sdf* a while ago and my old WEB space points to my Gemini Site.
FWIW, google forced Gemini to change its URLs, it is now:
Yes, except that heaviness is allowed, and lightness is opt-in.
> you’re also free to use e.g. Lynx/w3m/elinks browsers to browse the modern web or the subset that renders well on it.
Yes, except you have no way of known if and when something you want to search for will work on these. Whereas anything on Gemini will work on Gemini.
Ultimately to some extent it's an anti-bloat guarantee. Yes not all of the normal web has bloat, but that's not the point. To use a Genetic Programming analogy, it's the difference between not even considering program trees beyond a certain small size, vs having elaborate strategies for countering the inevitable program of bloat once you start dealing with programs of sufficient interest and complexity. But if you want to end up with programs that only consist of less than 10 instructions that you can reason with easily, then perhaps a "small world of small programs" is exactly what you want. And the natural content that fits this "small programs / small world" guarantee is personal thoughts and atomic websites. Which makes for an interesting webspace.
Kinda bummed that other threads here are focusing on how Gemini does not replace certain things we can do on the web like it’s a failure. I’d say it’s fine and good that the two have different capabilities!
In my experience, Gemini does not aspire to replace the web, but just to add a different internet experience for those who want the option.
(As you can tell, I still browse the web.)
For me there wasn't really a point to the effort. I'm glad the protocol exists and that people are enjoying it, but I'll stick to HTML.
You could also probably create a script to run on another machine that uses the Hetzner (or other cloud provider) API to monitor usage and shut off your server if it exceeds usage limits.
* Even if the risk is obviously very low, the value of running my gemlog isn't great. Not really worth any non-zero risk of significant costs.
haven't tried it myself yet, though I've been meaning to...
I mean I truly believe anyone can do small websites using HTML standards so for the actual content producer Gemini doesn't have much appeal. On the other hand using Gemini provide the users/visitors a guarantee they will not end up following a link and ending up in a bloated, privacy and ad nightmare. So I think it is sane to offer that even if you believe in small regular web.
It's more sensible to build the sort of websites I want to see, and to use Reader Mode for other people's websites.
Yeah - images are an integral part of the www.
As I've grown, I've come to learn I'm a very visual learner. I've learned that "clear is kind", and for many, image and text are both important, but many images have a way of conveying what is difficult to express in words without being overly verbose.
I agree, illustrations are an essential part, especially when teaching something.
One of the most popular Gemini browsers, Lagrange, shows images inline once downloaded. But you need to click their link to ensure you want to see the content first.
E.g., view this in lagrange to see what I mean: gemini://8by3.net/~xkcd/
I don't think most of the ones I like would be possible to implement in gemini because it doesn't have images.
1. The TLS requirement really undercuts the idea of using Gemini for whatever you want. I know how to set up certificates and run DNS but it's too much infrastructure. I've seen the rationale and don't find it realistic.
2. The barriers to entry are so high that only hardcore tech enthusiasts survive the journey. I don't dislike the people on there but they ran out of stuff to teach me pretty quickly.
Due to these two things I find Gemini very self contradictory in it's goals. Is it serious or just for fun? Is it meant for everybody or for a small covenant of nerds?
In the end I was unable to find any value in Gemini, however I'm still very interested in the gmi format and gempub ebooks. It's my opinion that unlike web pages, ebooks actually DO need to be rescued in the style of Gemini. The creator of gempub gives a very good rationale of what problems ebooks have and why gmi is much more condusive to a comfortable and consistent reading experience than html and css.
https://codeberg.org/oppenlab/gempub
From what I can tell I'm the only person on earth who gives a rat's ass about this (even more than the dev possibly) so I would really appreciate people checking this out.
Also, they should rename it to bard:// (just kidding)
Gemini predated Google's Gemini by many years and was a sufficiently known project. Google hijacking known project names is a thing which keeps happening for some reason.
was published 5 years ago with 347 comments
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=oppen.gemini.a...
[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.snoe.deedum
[3] https://oppen.digital/software/ariane/
I wonder if that has to do with that app change google is trying in order to be a walled garden like Apple.
I hope the EU is still sticking it to google and that carries over to the US.
insert Cooler Daniel meme
> Human Scale
> Distraction Free
> Privacy Protecting
Similar to the indie web/slow web movements, it's genuinely a shame that these qualities are essentially anathema to the business model of so much of modern social media.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
As I mentioned before in these threads, I find Gemini far easier to maintain then anything associated with html. It is very simple. I had moved my WEB space to Gemini on sdf* a while ago and my old WEB space points to my Gemini Site.
FWIW, google forced Gemini to change its URLs, it is now:
https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/gemtext-specification.gmi
and the FAQ, the article has the old URL
https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq.gmi
* sdf:
https://wiki.sdf.org/doku.php?id=gemini_site_setup_and_hosti...
List of clients are here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(protocol)
Gemini was one of the 48 constellations described by the 2nd century AD astronomer Ptolemy
That is the point of Gemini, simplicity :) That is why I like it.
>Now about tables? Are nested (numbered/bulleted) lists a thing?
No and no. If you need those, there is the WEB. Gemini is not a html replacement but a simple protocol.